Senator Russell Trood
Queensland Senator
…KING: In short you couldn’t do it (survive on the pension), Dr Craig `
Emerson?
EMERSON: I’d find it extraordinarily difficult to do it.
KING: Russell Trood?
TROOD: Well I doubt if I could do it, Miranda.
KING: Madonna.
TROOD: Madonna.
(Laughter)
TROOD: Peter,Miranda. We’re even now.
EMERSON: I’m Craig.
TROOD: All’s well (laughs).
KING: So you say pensioners can’t do it, why do we need a couple more
reviews and another seven months to know that some pensioners are
actually eating dog food, Craig Emerson?
EMERSON: Well as I say we do know its really tough. There is some very modest
relief on the way and that is in the form of an adjustment for the
official consumer price index. That’ll occur next week. There’s also
about $7.50 a week, that’s why I say its very modest and I’m not
pretending otherwise. In addition there’ll be 2 more instalments of
that utilities allowance before the end of the year, that’s $125 each
three months. No-one’s pretending that that’s the solution I’m just
saying that there is a little bit of relief on the way and we will - you’ve
heard Wayne Swan, you’ve heard Kevin Rudd, we’re very mindful of
the pressures people on it are under.
KING: But, with respect, it doesn’t look like that because my question was -
why do we need another 6 months and a couple more reviews to do
something about it? You know it’s a problem, you’ve got this huge
surplus why don’t you do something about it, today?
EMERSON: Sure. Now the huge surplus is there for a purpose and is actually not
locked in. Its not locked in. Brendan said a little while ago that its
locked in as a $22 billion surplus. Not so. The Coalition is opposing a
number of our budget measures. The reason for the surplus, I mean you
know we don’t build a surplus just for the heck of it. It is to do what
we need to do. Including for pensioners and that is to take the pressure
off price increases. If we don’t have a big surplus then there’s more
inflationary pressure and we’ll be chasing our tails as the cost of living
continues to go up for pensioners and everyone else.
KING: Russell Trood, in just a moment. But are you saying you don’t, you
can’t afford to give pensioners an increase right now?
EMERSON: I’m saying that there is a reason for a big surplus.
KING: Yeah, I heard that.
EMERSON: And that is to take the pressure off price increases. If we don’t do that,
if we don’t do that then we will be chasing our tails.
KING: So is that a bigger priority right now than giving a pension increase
right now?
EMERSON: Fighting inflation is really important. At least we recognise that the
cost of living increases are bad, that they exist, they are not in a fairy
tale, they are not a charade as the Leader of the Opposition and the
Shadow Treasurer have said. It is a real problem and we will tackle
that problem when we can get on top of that by getting our budget
through the Senate. That will help put downward pressure on cost of
living increases. Which is good for pensioners.
KING: Russell Trood?
TROOD: Madonna this is a truly bizarre situation where everybody from the
Prime Minister down acknowledges that the pension is inadequate…
KING: Including your Leader
TROOD: Including my Leader, including Craig and I both agree that’s the case,
there is plenty of evidence to suggest that the people in the community
who are on the pension are suffering greatly. We’ve got a $22 billion
surplus…
EMERSON: No we don’t, we don’t have a $22 billion surplus.
TROOD: We’ve got a $22 billion surplus, Craig on your budget figures and
more coming into the budget in the future. I cannot see why that
should not be made, and the consequence of all that of course is that
Mr Rudd has done what he’s done so many times before, which is send
the whole thing off to a another review which will not be, apparently,
reported until February. So I think that’s an unconscionable position to
be in.
KING: See Craig, you skite about this surplus when it suits you…
EMERSON: I’m not skiting about it I’m saying that there was a budget provision
for a $22 billion surplus. Key measures of which are being blocked by
Russell’s party in the Senate including an increase in the luxury car
tax. Now what is more important? Supporting pensioners, getting
those cost of living increases under control, or allowing, you know, the
wealthiest people in Australia to buy luxury cars without this increase
in tax. Let’s get some fairness in our society and I think they should
pass that luxury car tax increase.
KING: But you’re taking it onto a tangent, you answer your own question. If
pensioners were that important to you, why - you announce the luxury
car tax - why didn’t you then at the same time announce an increase for
pensioners?
EMERSON: What we announced as you know is our keeping our election
commitment to increase the utilities allowance from $107 to $500 to
provide a one-off pension bonus payment, which we did. And there
will be these cost of living adjustments coming up. But I’ll just repeat
there is not a $22 billion surplus. A range of measures are being
blocked in the Senate. A range of them including a tax that we want to
impose…
KING: You’ve explained that now just let Russell Trood have a say.
TROOD: People are clearly suffering in the community. This is supposed to be a
caring government, one for whom, to which people can look for
attention and meeting their needs. To postpone a decision on a budget
increase, on a pension increase until a review, and yet another review
is completed back in somewhere around about February and then
perhaps not announce anything until the budget, its just
unconscionable.
KING: It is a lot of money we’re talking. If we put a $50 increase on the
fortnightly pension, something like that, do we have any idea of
exactly how much money that would mean?
TROOD: Madonna it is a great deal of money, but the government doesn’t have
to increase the budget substantially on this occasion, it could make
some, provide some kind of interim relief, which could actually…
KING: Like? A lump sum payment.
TROOD: Well something of that kind, increase in the utilities allowance, there
are…
EMERSON: We did increase the utilities allowance…
KING: You didn’t increase it.
EMERSON: Yes, we did.
TROOD: There are creative ways in which the situation could be addressed, to
provide some kind of relief which is desperately needed.
EMERSON: We increased the utilities allowance from $107 to $500. And what I’m
saying is that, we need that budget passed through the Senate. The
Coalition’s priorities are to support or to oppose a luxury car tax, to
oppose a very substantial amount of extra revenue that would come off
the northwest shelf and if we had that revenue maybe we’d could do
more in relation to all of these expenses.
TROOD: We’ve got $22 billion and all the projections are that when the next
budget is introduced in fact, the increase in the surplus will actually be
greater, given the revenues
EMERSON: I’ll ask this question…
KING: No, I’m asking the questions, yeah but can I just…
EMERSON: How many increases…
KING: No I’ve turned off your microphone right now, because I want to ask
this question. And I want you to be fair to Russell Trood, you’ve had
most of the say Craig Emerson. But, you say that if the Coalition
passed that luxury car tax then perhaps the money could go to
pensioners. That’s what you said. But at no point in the lead up to the
election or post the election, when you announced the luxury car tax in
the budget was there: “Yes, we’re increasing the pension and we’re
increasing by this amount this year.”
EMERSON: That’s correct and what I’m saying is that Kevin Rudd and Wayne
Swann, Julia Gillard and others have said that we’ll look at this in the
context of the review which will report in February next year. I’m
simply saying that we need to build a large surplus, and I’m also
making the point that this problem did not start on the 24
November last year and the previous government now correctly says
that the pension is not adequate but right up to the 24
last year, for twelve years, they said that it was adequate.
KING: And the point that’s being made this morning, that Russell and our
listeners said, that the Coalition government this was an issue last year
and didn’t act on that.
TROOD: Well the pension is clearly inadequate. Part of the reason its
inadequate, of course is because of the price rises that have occurred
since November last year.
KING: And we’ve gone through that with Brendan Nelson this morning, let’s
not revisit that. Its 22 minutes past nine on 612ABC Brisbane and it’s
a fiery Inside Canberra this morning. We haven’t had one for a couple
of weeks. Let’s go on to some more political bombs and this time Peter
Costello. It’s becoming almost daily entertainment for the Labor Party
now isn’t he Craig Emerson?
EMERSON: Oh look I’d rather the Liberal Party deal with its own problems. I’m
not going to be a commentator on that. But I will violate that, just ever
so slightly by making this prediction. I heard the interview with
Brendan, I think you interpret a lot from Brendan as saying that Peter
Costello would leave politics. My guess, and it is a guess because he
wouldn’t tell me, is that he will stay but he’ll do what he always does
and that’s not make a decision. He’ll serve the people of Higgins and
he’ll remain as a backbencher until the next election. But if he stays
that means he will become the leader.
KING: Is he becoming daily entertainment? Is he becoming a liability when
everyone in the Liberal Party thought he was an asset as a treasurer?
TROOD: Well I think he is a great asset to the Liberal Party, Madonna, and
unfortunately I don’t know any more about his intentions or his plans
for the future than anybody else does and I am waiting enthusiastically
for the release of his book next week and for anything he might say. I
think in the meantime we should take him at his word at the 25
November, which was- he made it clear he was leaving the parliament
and I have no reason to think he might have changed that.
KING: What contribution is he making now, today this week?
TROOD: Well he’s made a substantial contribution to the electors of Higgins
and that’s primarily what he should be doing, of course.
KING: Is he back from overseas?
TROOD: Well he has been overseas. I gather he’s back. He’s been making
substantial speeches on aspects of the global economy which of course
is an area of expertise of his. So he’s been putting Australia’s case in
the international arena. That’s a good thing for him to be doing. But
my understanding is that he’s been very active in his electorate in a
way in which has not been possible since he’s been Treasurer.
KING: Would your party be more competitive with Labor if he was the
leader?
TROOD: I think we’re doing pretty well in difficult circumstances by virtue of
the fact we’ve got a new government elected in November. There is
always a honeymoon period for new governments. I must say the
people are becoming a bit sceptical of the Rudd Government and…
KING: Is that showing in the polls?
TROOD: I think its showing. Its certainly showing amongst the people I speak
to around Queensland, and across the country. I think the people are
increasingly uneasy about the fact that the Rudd government promised
so much and has failed to deliver on anything. And of course that the
pension issue is just another example of its modus opperandi. The
surplus has got lots of money, lots of good intentions but fails to
deliver.
KING: So why aren’t, why isn’t that being reflected in the polls? Why is
Kevin Rudd still up and Nelson down?
TROOD: Well there’s always a, a lag in the polls, I think and I think they reflect
some of the…
KING: Pretty long lag…
TROOD: People are assessing the government and they don’t easily come to
views about whether or not the government has performed or not and I
think the general mood out there is very much a matter of concern.
KING: Dr Nelson hinted that some within your own party are putting their
own interests ahead of the needs of the country. Do you think that’s
true?
TROOD: I don’t think that’s the case. I think we’ve got an active and talented
frontbench, we have an active and talented backbench need I say and,
therefore, people are making a contribution very actively in the party.
KING: You’re biting your lip…
EMERSON: Oh no I’m happy to stay out of it,as I said at the outset.
KING: Alright let’s move onto something and this is a more difficult issue.
The Victorian Parliament – Inside Canberra this morning with Senator
Russell Trood, Queensland Liberal Party Senator and Dr Craig
Emerson, Small Business Minister in the Rudd Government. The
Victorian Parliament is discussing abortion law reform and voting on
that fairly shortly. Very emotional. Very strong views on both sides.
Do either of you feel strongly in a debate like this?
EMERSON: I do, and most importantly it’s a conscience vote in Victoria, so people
are all expressing their individual views, that’s a great thing. I have
great qualms, great qualms about the idea of abortion on demand right
up to 24 weeks. I think they’re changing a common law arrangement
where at present you need, it needs to be an issue that relates to the
health and safety of the mother, but then to move to abortion on
demand right up to 24weeks. I think there is a point that Peter Costello
made at this point that you could have side by side, really in the one
hospital, the one little baby in a humidicrib at 24 weeks and another
one being terminated and for me that’s just the way I feel, I think that’s
really difficult.
KING: It’s a very interesting thing, just before going to you Russell Trood,
that we’re talking about Peter Costello and he is your political enemy
in a sense, and when we talk about a conscience vote when we come to
something like this, two people like you and him can actually agree.
EMERSON: We agree on that and that’s how it is often, in the Federal Parliament.
We agree with each other on lots of issues and on some, we strongly
disagree.
KING: Russell Trood…
TROOD: Well Madonna, surprisingly I find myself joining in the consensus that
exists here. I think that there seem to be two aspects of this bill as I
understand it. One is the decriminalisation of abortion, which brings it
inline, I gather, with the situation in other states - in Queensland in
particular. But the other aspect and this is the part that Craig and I
agree on, about which we are deeply concerned, is the extension or the
right to abortion right out to 24 weeks.
KING: Would you be comfortable with the decriminalisation of abortion as it
is in Queensland?
EMERSON: Well I would be.
TROOD: Well I think that’s the position that represents the community
consensus that’s on abortion these days. It doesn’t represent the views
of everybody in the community of course but it represents the
community consensus. I would have thought.
KING: Really interesting, you bringing up the community consensus - because
when it comes to a conscience vote, and lets say its you two in that
Parliament today having to vote on abortion, do you take into
consideration on a conscience vote what your community, what your
electorate, what your state might consider right or wrong? Or when
you go in there is that vote very much a personal one and no matter
what your electorate thinks, you’re voting as that person?
EMERSON: It’s a great question actually and I think I would take into account the
views of my electorate but if it was a real matter that goes to the heart,
goes to, my sense of morality. I couldn’t then say, despite my feelings
about this issue, I will vote the other way because the community
wants me to. So of course I would take that into account. In the end a
true conscience vote would be something that is of the heart, of the
soul and I think I don’t think I could then say not withstanding that, I
could vote the other way.
KING: On religious grounds, too.
EMERSON: People talk about ‘on religious grounds’ and you know, I’m Christian
but I know people who are not at all religious at all and do have very
strong moral and ethical values.
TROOD: Madonna, a conscience vote is very much a personal vote. But of
course a personal vote reflects all of the influences that come to you as
a human being, as an individual. So it reflects your education, it
reflects your religious convictions, it reflects your family’s values. It
reflects the views of, perhaps, people in the community - the friends
and everybody with whom you touch as a politician. So I think it
represents a kind of amalgam of different kinds of perspectives that
come together and so, I suppose, from my perspective a conscience
vote is largely the right to have an individual view independently of the
party of course and that’s the more important thing. It allows all those
influences to come together in a way in which would not be true if the
party wishes to have a party position on the matter.
KING: And the final question this morning, a woman in New South Wales
won $16 million yesterday. She wants to travel around Australia
before she dies. Fairly humble request, after putting $15 million in her
bank account. What would be on your to do list?
EMERSON: Well you’ll probably say this is unbelievable, but I would actually put
about $15 million of it into a trust fund and out of the income from that
I would organise for that to be spent on disadvantaged schools in my
local area.
KING: Would you really do that?
EMERSON: Yeah, I would.
KING: You would honestly, hand on your heart do that?
EMERSON: Absolutely.
KING: Russell?
TROOD: Well Madonna I can’t imagine winning $16 million dollars (laughs).
KING: I’m thinking “how many shoes?”
TROOD: So I’ve never turned my mind to this possibility. I suppose I’d throw a
bit at the mortgage, perhaps give a bit to my children and then with the
balance which would be a very large amount of it, nearly clearly the
majority of it, I think I’d be inclined to put it into some kind of
educational foundation to support educational activities.
KING: Well I’ve got an idea why don’t we the three of us buy a ticket
EMERSON: Okay.
KING: And if we win $16 million, we set up a little thing and maybe one of
those, or we start a pension fund.
EMERSON: Lets do it, lets do it.
KING: Agreed?
TROOD: That’s a good idea.
EMERSON: And we’ll get a form guide on Saturday and back a couple of winners.
KING: Yes, now you’re getting me into trouble.
(Laughter)
EMERSON: But I’m not sharing that proposition.
KING: Doctor Craig Emerson, Senator Russell Trood, thank you.
EMERSON: Thanks a lot Madonna.
KING: That’s Inside Canberra for this week. It’ll be back at the same time
next week.