ABC Radio Australia: Asia Pacific Program

Terrorism experts say the Australian Government's new counter-terrorism policy fails to act on the threats of young Australians going abroad for terrorism training and those nurturing terror plots domestically. There's wide support for the paper's plan to get tough on visas issued from high risk countries, but one analyst says Indonesia doesn't need to be on that list and India does.


Presenter: Linda Mottram
Speakers: Prof Clive Williams, Strategic and Defence Studies Centre Australian National University; Robert McClelland, Australian Attorney General; Senator Russell Trood, Chair Senate Foreign Affairs Defence and Trade References Committee

MOTTRAM: The policy measures in the paper are few but they've won some support. Professor Clive Williams is the director of terrorism studies at the Strategic and Defence Studies Centre at the Australian National University. He says the biometric visa measure, requiring applicants from ten designated risk countries to provide fingerprints and facial images, is needed.

WILLIAMS: One of the concerns is people travelling to Australia using false documentation and this measure is going to be aimed at those countries where people are most likely to originate from.

MOTTRAM: The ten countries Australia will focus on for this measure are not yet known .. because it's to be a collaborative measure with the United Kingdom. Australia's Attorney General is Robert McClelland.

McCLELLAND: There'll be ten regions or countries that we'll focus on and we'll be working with the British to work out where they have coverage and of course, rather than duplicating their coverage where we may be able to value-add to theirs and respectively get the benefit of where they're locating their technologies.

MOTTRAM: A country will get on the target list on the basis of issues like the tendency to instability, the existence on its territory of terrorist organisations or of individuals who may support or assist terrorist organisations. In the Asian region, the policy paper cites Indonesia as a country that's made progress against terrorism but where concerns remain. Mr McClelland wouldn't be drawn on whether Indonesia would be included for the new measures.

McCLELLAND: I you look at the fact that Great Britain will have coverage in a number of areas leading into European travel then obviously we'll be endeavouring to spread broader coverage.

MOTTRAM: Clive Williams doesn't believe the measures need to be applied to Indonesia, which he says has a largely domestically contained threat. He says the U-K is looking at including Somalia, Yemen, North Africa and Pakistan on it's list. Bangladesh he says should be added and Australia should add India.

WILLIAMS: India's a source country for terrorism. It's also a conduit country for terrorism. I don't think any list that didn't have India on it would be really very valuable to us.

MOTTRAM: While not referring to any particular country, the Foreign minister Stephen Smith has already said the measure will require diplomatic management with the countries that do end up on the list. And given the existing issues in Australia's relationship with India over the treatment of Indian students, this would probably leave India feeling slighted.

A key message of the paper is that so-called home-grown terrorism is a now a persistent and permanent feature of Australia's security environment. Clive Williams says that's been the situation since 2003 .. the last time an attempt was made by a foreign national to import a terrorist attack to Australia. But he also says Australian convictions on terrorism-related offences in recent years, though numbering only only about 20 since 2001, make the point that the threat is real.

WILLIAMS: If the Pendennis group in Melbourne or Sydney or the Neath group in Victoria had been able to do what they'd planned to do we'd be looking at a lot of dead people so it clearly is a very important issue.

MOTTRAM: And former foreign affairs academic, now Liberal opposition Senator Russell Trood says domestically, there's a big omission from the report.

TROOD: If home-grown terrorism is now a serious problem then there is no strategy in this white paper to address it very effectively.

MOTTRAM: What would such a strategy look like?

TROOD: Well it would involve a counter-radicalisation strategy. It would be an attempt to try and focus attention and resources on the matter of counter-extremism, which is the reasons why people become extremist, the reasons why they become radicals in the Australian community and why having become extremist and radical they feel the need to engage in terrorist activity.

MOTTRAM: Clive Williams has also warned that a problem remains with young Australians travelling abroad for training in terrorism and returning to carry out attacks. He's also called for a review to ensure Australian government counter- and anti-terrorism funds are being spent on the basis of threat.